| Change log entry 70802 | |
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| Processed by: | richwarm (2020-09-21 00:21:30 GMT) |
| Comment: |
<< review queue entry 67027 - submitted by 'michaelchen' >> Recent changes removed the adjective-form definition, but 失礼 is also an adjective, more often than it is a verb apparently. From LINE https://dict.naver.com/linedict/zhendict/dict.html#/cnen/example?query=%E5%A4%B1%E7%A4%BC: - 故意失礼的行为 - 你可不仅仅是失礼 - 公开剔牙很失礼 - 指着别人是失礼的 ---------------------------------------- Editor: 1) We don't necessarily give an English gloss for every part-of-speech usage a headword has. For example, by virtue of the fact that we have defined 失礼 as a verb ("act discourteously")[1], it can be assumed that it can also be used as a noun (acting discourteously, a.k.a. rudeness, discourtesy etc.) Example: 如何對待下屬的失禮、失信和失誤 [1] Actually, it's more accurate to say 失礼 is a v.o. (verb-object) than to say it's a verb. And therefore, "commit a breach of etiquette" is indeed a good definition. 2) The reason for point #1 is a) Our definitions would become rather wordy and redundant if we exhaustively listed all part-of-speech usages. b) We expect users to know that "Chinese part of speech is [...] highly fluid and requires the learner to master [...] ‘syntactic yoga’: the contortion or exchange of one part of speech into another."[2] [2] That's a quote from the following article, whose authors invented the term "syntactic yoga". I recommend the article to you. https://brannerchinese.com/publications/Branner_Meng_Syntactic_Yoga_in_Chinese_English_Lexicography.pdf 3) Your examples: a) 故意失礼的行为 This makes sense with 失礼 defined as "act discourteously". It's a noun phrase in which 行为 is qualified by the verb phrase 故意失礼 ("deliberately act discourteously"). That is, it means "behavior in which one deliberately acts discourteously". Line translates it as "a deliberate discourteous act". But you're being too inflexible if you insist that 失礼 has to be defined as an adjective rather than as a verb for 故意失礼的行为 to make sense. You might need to do a bit of yoga :-) b) 你可不仅仅是失礼 (Line: "Well, you were more than rude.") This is not Chinese utterance that was translated into English. It's the reverse. The line "Well, you were more than rude." comes from an episode of "Desperate Housewives" that was translated into Chinese. https://www.kexiaoguo.com/meiju31/415/ You keep quoting from Line, but a lot of their bilingual examples are translations from English, or artificial Chinese sentences created to match English usage. We like examples of *naturally-occurring* Chinese. Anyway, in 你可不仅仅是失礼 does 失礼 have to be seen as an adjective? I think not. Here are examples where 你可不仅仅是 is followed by verb phrases: 你可不仅仅是没钱 你可不仅仅是欺瞒了其他人 你可不仅仅是救了我和我的女儿儿子， 你可不仅仅是有颜值，你的成绩你的才艺都很不错 etc. c) 公开剔牙很失礼 (Line: "It is bad form to pick one's teeth in public.") What's the problem here? Is the word after 很 necessarily an adjective? Here's a definition of 很: 非常；甚。 例 「雨很大」、「他很忙」、「很幸福」、「他很得長輩的歡心」。 https://www.moedict.tw/~%E5%BE%88 In the third example, 很 qualifies the *verb phrase* 得長輩的歡心. 很失礼 = "very much breaches etiquette" d) 指着别人是失礼的 (Line: "It is not polite to point at a person.") This can be understood as "To point at a person is to commit a breach of etiquette." |
| Diff: |
# - 失禮 失礼 [shi1 li3] /to act discourteously/forgive me (for my impropriety)/ # + 失禮 失礼 [shi1 li3] /discourteous/to act discourteously/forgive me (for my impropriety)/ |