| Change log entry 62887 | |
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| Processed by: | richwarm (2017-01-13 21:57:36 GMT) |
| Comment: |
<< review queue entry 57091 - submitted by 'richwarm' >> 1) I'm finding it hard to think of something that could be said to be "unjustified and undeserving of such description". 2) "identity or status is unverified, or inconsistent in detail" -- like at a border checkpoint?? 3) "no valid reason as justification" awkward phrase that seems to mean the same as "no justification" or "no valid reason" 4) "words without weight" This means "words that are not authoritative". Can 名不正言不順 really mean that? 5) "cf 名正言順" The definition we have had for 名正言順 is /right and proper/authoritative and fair/(modified from Confucian Analects) with the right title (or reputation), the words carry weight/ I think this is wide of the mark, and I have submitted for a change to /justifiable/appropriate/perfectly legitimate/ ------------------------------- TP ~ 孔老夫子說：「名不正則言不順，言不順則事不成，事不成則民無所措手足也。」 <<In a famous passage of the Analects that extols the virtue of rectifying names, Confucius said: "If names are not correct, a situation cannot be described truthfully. If a situation is not described truthfully, nothing can be accomplished.">> NC's interpretation of 名不正則言不順，言不順則事不成: <<If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs can not be carried on to success.>> "If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot be carried on to success." Confucius, Analects, Book XIII, Chapter 3, verses 4-7, translated by James Legge ------------------------------- Example of usage: 我国历史悠久，朝代更零星纷繁。每朝的创建者要首手办的第一件事就是确立国号（朝代名称）。国号就是一个国家的称号。名不正言不顺，确立了国号就名正了，代表一个新的国朝从此诞生。 (Here, I think 名不正言不顺 is a shorthand way of referring to 名不正則言不順，言不順則事不成. I think it means that one should name the country and dynasty so that reality is reflected -- i.e. one should come up with a new name when a new dynasty is established.) |
| Diff: |
- 名不正言不順 名不正言不顺 [ming2 bu5 zheng4 yan2 bu5 shun4] /unjustified and undeserving of such description/identity or status is unverified, or inconsistent in detail/unworthy of the title (or name), or reputation/no valid reason as justification/words without weight/cf 名正言順|名正言顺/ # + 名不正則言不順，言不順則事不成 名不正则言不顺，言不顺则事不成 [ming2 bu4 zheng4 ze2 yan2 bu4 shun4 , yan2 bu4 shun4 ze2 shi4 bu4 cheng2] /If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot be carried on to success. (Confucius, Analects, translated by James Legge)/ + 名不正言不順 名不正言不顺 [ming2 bu5 zheng4 yan2 bu5 shun4] /(of a title, degree etc) illegitimately conferred/ |